We’re still soldiering away on multiple projects here. Among other things, the next iteration of N. Yes! Finally we’re posting about N. Hooray!!!
There has been a lot of internal discussion about what sorts of things we want to do with it, and beyond the obvious — make it a proper “web 2.0” dealie with in-browser play and integrated level creation/sharing and all that good stuff — there are lots of things to consider.
So far we’ve come up with a bunch of interesting and weird online ideas, and we’ve been talking with some of our friends about how to actually implement them — our knowledge of all things online, from databases to social platforms, has some serious catching up to do. The exciting news is that databases are apparently way more powerful and less complicated than our limited experience has led us to believe, and we’re really looking forward to figuring out the best ways to use this power in fun new ways.
The core game will remain more or less identical, however the presentation of this gameplay remains an open question. Even the smallest change in context can result in large differences in effect, and some of the things we’ve been debating are the merits of the current “episode-based” single-player structure vs a more freeform arrangement of levels. Episodes definitely provide some much-needed structure and challenge, however they’re also awkward in many ways. We’ve been trying to figure out what other approaches could be used to present/structure levels.
There are also still some annoyingly large concrete development tasks that loom before us, most notably rewriting the editor. We’re of course going to be keeping a “legacy” mode so that everyone who’s gotten used to the current horrible version — ourselves included — can continue to work unhindered. Obviously we’ll be improving even this old-fashioned mode somewhat, because there are a few basic but vital functions that it currently lacks. Undo, anyone? 🙂
The main problem editor-wise is how to deal with the whole “half tile” issue: there are some annoying asymmetries caused by our selection of tile shapes. This has been discussed on the forums in the past and it’s a bit hard to explain/describe — actually this vague description indicates that at least part of the challenge lies in finding the most useful way to classify and describe the problem itself.
There remain many possible solutions, all of them with serious flaws: introducing new tile shapes (for example, a 1/4-sized square) means that the tile-selection UI becomes more complex. Frankly the number of new tile shapes that would be needed approaches the number of original shapes, so this option sort of sucks — we don’t want to bury the existing shapes under a pile of (literal) corner cases!
Instead we could simply change the grid to be 2x the current resolution; this works beautifully and unifies everything nicely… except for the circular shapes! Unfortunately these shapes can’t be nicely cut into quarters. There’s also all of the UI problems associated with allowing tiles to be moved around by 1/2-tile increments: users can create very awkward shapes, but is it best to automatically sanitize these, outright disallow any movement that results in such problems, or allow the creation of horrible awkward monstrosities?
It’s a big UI nightmare!!
Anyway, aside from a few remaining bugs and other mundane tasks — such as devising a new format for the level and replay data — there really only remains the considerable effort of developing the backend (database stuff) and the front end (menu/UI flow). Both of these tasks are substantial and somewhat overwhelming… hopefully we can figure it out, if not alone than with the help of our friends.
In other news, the Difference Engine Initiative — which was talked about last time — continues at full steam. Each week the sessions are vibrant and inspirational, and the women involved are creating some really unique and interesting ideas and experiences.
One of the assignments was to modify an existing Stencyl game to make a new game; Mare’s take on this exercise is Herding Cats! Note: You’ll want to hear the sound. It is very simple, and rough and unfinished in a lot of ways, but it’s a decent version 1 and it was an excellent learning experience.
Stay tuned for more on The Difference Engine Initiative as it unfolds.
Im glad of finally hearing about N again 😀
As the conservative player I am, I still go for the episode format, but thats up to your decision, Im looking foward to see how this evolves, good job!
Great to hear from you two again.
If you’re considering changing the episode format, may I suggest a form where instead of each episode unlocking just the next episode, they unlock two episodes. Rearrange the columns into a triangular shape, so that you start at the top with just one episode available initially. The next tier down has two episodes, the tier after that has three episodes, meaning that the middle episode on that tier has two prerequisite episodes. This could go down for approximately 10 or more tiers, depending if you are making all-new maps. The hardest maps would of course be found in the middle of each tier, because that is the hardest to unlock.
Regarding the half-tile problem, I really do not know. As I understand it, the problem is mainly just aesthetic, but it can affect gameplay. As an idea though, what if you could add or subtract tiles from each other, to create new shapes to fit? Like, a 7 tile minus a horizontal 5 tile could create a 3 tile that is shifted by half a tile. I’m not sure how viable that is, and I can see it getting rather messy, but I’m just throwing down an idea hoping that it may help you find an acceptable solution.
I can see the coffin shining through my tinted window
Must’ve missed the sign that said it was a fire sale
Everyone will come, everyone will come to my funeral
To make sure that I stay dead
@remm: your proposal is a good example of why this is awkward — you can create all sorts of very ugly shapes. How do we disallow these unwanted shapes while allowing the wanted ones? Just putting up a big red X when the user is trying to do something “illegal” isn’t really a good solution, it would be better if it was impossible to get into an illegal position by design… but it’s not clear how to achieve this yet 🙁
I don’t even slightly understand the half tile problem, but can’t you do the 2x grid for all other tiles and keep the circular tiles at 1x?
Placing a 1x circular tile overwrites any overlapping 2x tiles.
Anyway, great news to hear about N.2!
Some proper web 2.0 to bring the community together would be fantastic. (NUMA has been losing it’s way for a while now)
Also; It would be great to have a complete set of new “core” levels (stops the “there is a faster run on 1.4” debate)
Oh, and I humbly offer my services for beta testing if you are ever looking for volunteers.
Pai, if the physics were going to be same, id definitely want to have the same levels with the same leaderboards, and maybe more levels of course, but since theyre going to change the physics only a bit (but enough to crash the demos) I prefer to have a new set of level too, because I dont want to have two leaderboards for the same 500 first levels, that’d be awful 😉
Great to hear from you guys as always.
A thought: one of the most innovative parts of N has always been the episode format; think long and hard (as I know you have and will) before you change it. Unlocking episodes contributed in a big way to the uniqueness of the single-player.
Pai, have you ever tried to build a wiggly line using just ‘5’ tiles? You will find that you are restricted to certain lines. You can’t just make tiles go anywhere if you are to keep the clean lines, and not have half-tile sized breaks in it.
I think what you need to do is define the problem exactly. Identify the situations where you see there is a problem, and invent a way to fix it. Perhaps you’re looking at two separate problems here, which could explain why a single solution is not obvious.
Like, changing the grid resolution would fix the problem with the ‘2’ and ‘3’ tiles, but not the quarter tiles. So perhaps you could add an optional ‘x’ snapping for tiles (like x snapping for objects), keeping the grid squares the same size, just be able to shift them from the rigid grid. You’d need some sort of restriction preventing tiles from overlapping. Then add 1/4 and 3/4 block tiles as the ninth and tenth type tiles.
As I understand the problem to be, this should cover everything. But of course it has downsides regarding losing a little of the simplicity of Ned. It also may play havoc with drone paths, when they encounter a shifted tile. Unless drones get the same grid changes as tiles, allowing them to get closer to the tiles.
Agh, I don’t envy your task.
I have few questions:
1. more useful than introducing us to the problems you’re encountering would be telling us what problems did you already solve or what did you actually code/create
2. can’t you really make an estimate of when is it going to be finished?
3. I feel that every next blogpost about N is more blurry and misleading than the previous one
Don’t get me wrong, I love N and would gladly pay for new version (if it’s actually better than NReality, which can be a tough goal), but I don’t like these blogposts because you somehow skip the important things (like why, why, seriously why, can’t you clear the current highscore boards?).
PS: I don’t map, so the talk about editor is not at all interesting for me. And I would gladly read about the coding issues and such as long as you tell us the rest.
Oh yeah forgot about that, cleaning the highscore boards deleting the hacked scores, we can gladly give you a list of the current hackers, which you can check watching their obvious hacked runs, and then delete all their runs.
30% of the spots are already taken by hacked scores, maybe you could easily remove them with our list, or even select a moderator of the comunity and let him accest the database (which I dont think you will, but its a possibility).
Just please tell us about this important concern, I think it would only take a little time to remove them :/
So good to hear about N again!! I agree with Pai about the tile problem, with the larger 1x tiles deleting any underlying 2x tiles, and keeping the curved tiles as 1x
Also, as with Vankusss, EddyMataGallos and many others, could you please clear the hackers from the highscore board, it looks extremely ridiculous. I have so far counted over 80 different hackers claiming their position on the highscores.
I can’t wait to hear the date of when the next version is coming out, so keep up the good work!
I’m BACK! And to start my post, I will quote the song Face Me. (If you don’t know the song, what’s with you??)
Everybody’s gaining somethin’
I’m everybody’s friend
None of us will ever be the same
I try to run away but things are catchin’ me
Hauntin’ me
Forcin’ me to go on, and on and on and on and on
Face me
Closer to reality
Closer to the air
Closer to reality
Closer to myself (closer to myself)
Sigh, this will be cancelled when you realise you’re taking too long to create the game.
This is just Bionicle: the legend of mata nui, when LEGO realised it was taking too long to create it, thus they cancelled it.
Also, you talking about this since v1.4.
otherworld out.
I really love otherworld99.
Keep up the good work! Amd may I reccomend having some shapes that can share a grid with another of the same type, i e quarter square pieces that can make upleft-downleft-downright pieces, or upleft-upright-downright pieces, simply as block additions?
I´m really quite happy to here this kind of news.
Please don´t change the physics/the highscores completely, then I´ll be happy!
This is the best, most interesting post I’ve read on here in quite a while! Keep up the good work!
Please, if youre not going to clean the hacked scores of N leaderboards, which would take you a few minutes i guess, or let someone do that, at least TELL US to stop wondering so.
I think one of the most inventive things you could do for the game, regardless of episodes or not, is include map styles that have come about because of the Neditor and NUMA. Instead of requiring the player to simply reach the exit, pose challenges to reach the exit in a certain number of frames or seconds, include survivals and require them to survive for so long, include more user-made maps to fill in the spaces. I think more map variety than action and puzzle would make a more interesting v1.5, regardless of how you set up the levels.
Hey guys,
Will there be some kind of opportunity for us to get maps into the main game? I’ve been waiting 5 years for a chance to get a map into an equivalent of the 80s column. I understand that you’ll be changing the physics quite a bit, but even still, there must be plenty of maps on numa which won’t be broken by that and which might be good enough to be put in the game. I’m sure there’d be plenty of volunteers from the community to pick some great maps, if you needed help too.
I agree with southpaw. We’ve already branched out and made so many map ideas and such with what we have with v1.4. Imagine how much we could branch out if there was even just a little more of a ground laid out to work with.
it would be great if you could save progress after each level, rather than every 5.
@Yahoozey: HA. HA.
Hmm… this is taking a while for the guys to post, they said it’s monthly now.
lots of good ideas there. i had an idea like remm’s. im sick at the moment and probably didnt read everything correctly, but as i understand it everyone thinks that putting a tile over another tile to delete it should be removed & then you could make a 3/4 tile just by putting two ‘5’ tiles over each other instead of just making more & more tile shapes.
also, i just thought of a tile editor. so you can create a tile the size of one grid square.
& this may sound stupid but you know how on N+ you have 2 player. why cant we do that on PC (it might have to use broadband but im sure everyone except me has that) with two guys running on the same map. & also have an multi-editor same as gameplay online but two or more guys on the same map screen editing & collaborating with a message board on the side & someone could be the host to allow playtesting or make it awesome & someone can still be editing while another person can playtest (just like halo)
inspired by ^ idea, a map 4 times the size of the normal N map size for championship battles or multi-editor
last idea, a shadow ninja gameplay style, with a lighter colour ninja that your ninja colour or just the outline colour thats about 2-5 seconds (80-200 frames) behind you and if he gets hit by a gauss/drone/rocket or anything else then you die & lose. he doesnt have to interact with objects, just follow your path exactly so that bounce-blocks dont mess him or you up & so mines cant kill him
i lied, last idea, inspired by ^ idea. a symetrical map with a ninja on the other side that inverts your movements, this would be pointless but funny
lots of good ideas there. i had an idea like remm’s. im sick at the moment and probably didnt read everything correctly, but as i understand it everyone thinks that putting a tile over another tile to delete it should be removed & then you could make a 3/4 tile just by putting two ‘5’ tiles over each other instead of just making more & more tile shapes.
also, i just thought of a tile editor. so you can create a tile the size of one grid square.
& this may sound stupid but you know how on N+ you have 2 player. why cant we do that on PC (it might have to use broadband but im sure everyone except me has that) with two guys running on the same map. & also have an multi-editor same as gameplay online but two or more guys on the same map screen editing & collaborating with a message board on the side & someone could be the host to allow playtesting or make it awesome & someone can still be editing while another person can playtest (just like halo)
inspired by ^ idea, a map 4 times the size of the normal N map size for championship battles or multi-editor
last idea, a shadow ninja gameplay style, with a lighter colour ninja that your ninja colour or just the outline colour thats about 2-5 seconds (80-200 frames) behind you and if he gets hit by a gauss/drone/rocket or anything else then you die & lose. he doesnt have to interact with objects, just follow your path exactly so that bounce-blocks dont mess him or you up & so mines cant kill him
i lied, last idea, inspired by ^ idea. a symetrical map with a ninja on the other side that inverts your movements, this would be pointless but funny
another idea is to be able to input custom drone paths in NED (e.g. by drawing there path with the mouse)
I dont know how this would interact with tiles as the drones can go through them for as long as they dont enter an empty tile square, but its just a thought